Police Interview with Leslie Mower

Dee’s second interview with investigators. Her lawyer, Bart Bailey, two Sandy City PD detectives, and Dan Patrick, FBI present. Detectives read Dee her Miranda rights, and then confronted her about her lie where she claimed not that to know whom Ken was meeting on the morning he was murdered. Dee eventually said that she thought Ken was meeting David Novak. They took a break. After the break, Dee told them that the other main witness to the murder, Shane Christianson, is related to Dee’s paternal uncle’s wife’s sister. Dee and Bart told the detectives that Tom, Tommy, and Darick were all threatening Ken. But they didn’t mention the lawsuit or investigation. Dee said that Tom had married into the Russian mob, and that he was likely in business with a specifically Moscow-based Russian organized crime group. At the end of the conversation, Dee asked Carriger to show her the AT&T store surveillance still of Chris purchasing the phone, “Is there any way of getting better shots of this gentleman? Because Russians have a distinct look. And I have to just wonder if this guy wasn’t Russian — all Russians have a distinct look.” Bart said, “…[I]f there some way to put the fear of God in somebody you can do something and you pick some other target to make a public example of that. One of the things that’s just scary about how Ken died is how public it is. There were just a thousand ways I could have killed Ken — poisoning or shooting him in his car when he’s coming home or something. But in broad daylight, in a public restaurant — that little strip between State Street and the freeway on 10600 South has got to be one of the busiest intersections in the entire State. You take that as a message. You know, ‘I can get you anytime, anywhere, anyhow’. So if that’s the message to [Dee’s] family, because we’ve been investigating Tom … I’m making this up, obviously, as I’m going along here but it’s a theory.”

Transcribed, audio verified, ready to go 6.13.22TT Disk 9Tv (2 of 2) Leslie Mower, Page
Disk 9 (2 of 2) Leslie Mower
Date: December 13, 2007. 9:45 AM (Thursday)
Present: Bart Bailey (Lawyer), Leslie Dee Mower, Dan Patrick (FBI), Dean Carriger (SCPD), Chris Thomas (SCPD)
I’m assuming Speaker 3 is Chris Thomas.

DEE: Why, I think that, I don’t know, cause Ken would not tell, but one day just before Ken died, second to the last meeting with Ken, which would have been the week before the 10th of uh, no. or November, I was talking to him and he was telling me about some information that that he had got, some kind of negative information about Tom, my ex-husband, and he was telling me that, uh some things and I said, ‘oh, so David’s really been keeping you informed’. And I don’t know why I threw it out there, but I just thought that could have possibly been the one. And he said, ‘yeah,’ but he had never told me before that about anything that he ever discussed with David. And I did not know he was meeting with David once a week until I got David’s card that was sent to me. I had no idea
CARRIGER: Okay, who, who have you talked to about Ken’s death?
DEE: My sisters that have come here, Chree (Shar – ee) and Chree Patton and Toni Guest and Jamie Ross, my son Barry and Bob, my mother. I don’t, (cough in the background) I didn’t have a lot of people on my phone here. And if you don’t have their phone numbers, it takes kind of like two months to get them on. They don’t do it very fast. They could do it in a day, but they don’t. And so, I didn’t really have access to a lot of phone, like, but like my family came here. Ron Adams, Ron Adams is kind of like my brother-in-law he’s common law with my sister Chree. He came to visit me with my mom and Tony and Shari.
CARRIGER: What suspicions do you have about Ken’s death?
DEE: I think my ex-husband had something to do with it. [verklempt] He hated Ken. He always hated Ken and Ken was scared of him. He was scared of Darick and he was scared of Tommy. And I knew he was scared because he built me a vault for home storage, home food storage. And he said that, and it, it kind of hurt me. He said that he built this and it’s down in my house. I’ve never seen it. I don’t know anything about it. Bart, maybe. And he said, he went down there and he, he could see that someone could come and shut the door on him and he would never be able to get out. And he said, ‘So, I made them get me a way out and I’ll show it to you when you come home’. I said, ‘Who would come and do anything like that?’ He said, “You know (hiccup, hiccup) Tommy or Darick?” He was so afraid of them. They had threatened him. Tom threatened him. Tom was really upset when I married him. Whenever he would say his name, whatever I’d be at the business. Uh, I would always talk about his wife, Lydia, but I married Ken long before he married Lydia. And, uh, he wouldn’t even say his name.
CARRIGER: Was Ken involved in any business aspects with Tom, Darick, or Tom Jr.?
DEE: No (chuckle) then, and this really makes me feel bad to say this because I love my sons. And I’m not saying this because I, I disliked Tom. I’m just telling you this because he’s the only person I know and, possibly Darick and Tommy, it seemed like they liked him, but I don’t know. They, I don’t know. They liked him well enough to come and borrow money. Darick did. Okay. But I know that Tom didn’t like him. He’s the only person I know that never liked Ken.
THOMAS: Dee, in the, in the course of this investigation, with this, we got a lot of tips in, and one of the tips came from somewhere inside the prison here. And somebody told us that they thought you had more knowledge than you provided us. And that if we got your phone, phone calls, that would, that would shed some, some light on that. So, we did serve as a subpoena on the BOP [BOARD OF PRISONS] and got some phone records and we have the phone record here. We’d like to show it to you. It was a phone record of, and this is the transcript of the phone call, is between you and Ken, the day before he was, he was shot. and I’d like to show it to you, and have you explain it. I think before we, before we do that, I just need to advise you of, of what your rights are. And Bart’s here to, to help with that. You have the right not to incriminate yourself, and say anything that would be incriminating. Now. I, I don’t want to believe you had anything to do with it and I don’t think you do, but just because there is a discrepancy in like what you said and what this phone record shows, it might be lapse in memory, or it might be that you’re being deceitful and I’m, I’m not gonna say which one of those things it is. but,
DEE: Well, that’s all I can remember about that phone conversation.
THOMAS: Well, let me
DEE: I mean, he was excited about coming and seeing me…
CARRIGER: Well
THOMAS: Let me, let me show you,
DEE: …me
THOMAS: I guess [05:46] possible glitch (inaudible) Det. Carriger (also sounds like ‘two different characters’) highlighted some sections there,
CARRIGER: Well, let me read, read this out, and this is the, the transcript and I’m going to read this highlighting. This is in part of that conversation you’ve had on
DEE: The only person that could have even said anything is Ms. Docking or…
CARRIGER: well, and,
DEE: Powers
CARARIGER: and that’s fine. This is your phone call from November 14th, 2007 at 4 44 California time.
THOMAS: to Ken
CARRIGER: Okay. Now in that conversation, Ken
DEE: Oh four thousand (4000), two thousand se-…
CARRIGER: two thousand seven (2007), this year
THOMAS: It’s, it’s the, the day before.
DEE: Oh, okay, the day before
CARRIGER: The day before,…
DEE: ok, ok,
CARRIGER: … Ken’s death, the phone call you referenced. Ken said, ‘Yeah. I’m ss- I, so I’m actually meeting with my friend tomorrow at seven (7:00) a.m. Go figure that out.’ Your response was, ‘Oooh, I love it.’ Ken said, ‘Seven (7:00) a.m. in the morning; so, I have to get up.’
DEE: Okay, I don’t re-
CARRIGER: (continuing…) You said.
DEE” I don’t remember that.
CARRIGER: You said, ‘Talk about Darick and Tommy as well, because evidently they’ve been talking to him.’
DEE: (glitch, edit creates the ‘I-I’) [6:53] I, I, was
CARRIGER: Ken
DEE: was David Novak.
CARRIGER: Ken
DEE: That’s who I was referring to. And that’s who I thought. And I, that’s why I would’ve said, that. And I don’t remember him saying that he had a,
CARRIGER: Ken
DEE: that he had a meeting. I just don’t. I didn’t
CARRIGER: Ken responded, ‘Okay, well I will at 7:00 AM. So.” You responded, ‘See what they have to say.’
DEE: Tay (glitch?) [7:11]
CARRIGER: Ken said, ‘Okay, I will, I will try to broaden the stroke and try to include a lot more of the people and see what happens.’ You responded. ‘Okay.’ Ken said, ‘So, yeah. Seven (7:00) a.m. tomorrow morning.’ You said, ‘Well, he knows now, nothing will leak out. Nothing is being said, nothing is,’ Ken said. ‘Yeah, exactly. So, tomorrow morning at seven (7:00) a.m. So, tomorrow night, I should know more.’
DEE: Okay.
CARRIGER: Just a few minutes ago, you said ‘Ken made no reference or mention to a meeting at seven (7:00) a.m.
DEE: I didn’t think he did. I didn’t even
CARROGER: Well
DEE: I don’t even remember that he did, but yes, I can’t (can?) explain it.
CARRIGER: There’s five times right here. He said he had a meeting at 7:00 AM that next morning.
DEE: I honestly didn’t even remember that. But, the day that I found out for sure that possibly David Novak was the one that was giving him the information about Tommy and Darick was when he told me that David Novak would never have anything to do with Tom again, because when Tom got into prison and we didn’t get the commutation, Tom wrote David Novak, a really, really nasty letter. David Novak took that letter and he put it in a locked box in case anything happened to . It was a very threatening letter to David Novak. And he said he would never have anything to do with Tommy or Darick again. When Ken came and told me two weeks before, or when I asked, or when I caught that it was David Novak that he had been meeting with, uh to, and David was feeding him some things, I never knew who was feeding things.
DEE: But then I caught on that it was David Novak. Cause I just simply slipped it in there and said, ‘Ah, oh, David Novak’. And he said, ‘Yeah.’ And he didn’t say anything like negative or anything like that. He just said, ‘Yeah.’ And that’s when I knew it was David. So, he also told me at that time that Tommy and Darick were now meeting with David Novak. And I said, ‘I don’t understand. David Novak said he would never meet with Tommy or Darick or never do anything for Tom ever again.’ And he said, ‘Dee I have to tell you something. They got a guy that is a doctor that got Tom in the drug program. So, he could get out of jail sooner.’ And I said, ‘I didn’t even know that.’ And he said, ‘Yeah’. He said, ‘That’s what I understand and that’s what I’ve heard.’ And I said, ‘So, he has been talking to Darick and Tommy.’ And he said, ‘Yes, he’s been talking to Darick and Tommy and been getting a lot of information.’
THOMAS: How did you find out about the nasty letter that was written?
DEE: David Novack
BAILEY: I’m sorry. I didn’t hear that question.
THOMAS: How did, how did Dee find out about the nasty letter that was written?
DEE: Because, uh, Ken had met David Novak and I didn’t even know he was going to meet David Novak and he met David Novak and, uh David had told him about it. And he said that he was so scared about this letter and was quite frightened now because it was such a threatening letter that he had to take it down and put it in the, lockbox or safety deposit box or something like that in the bank, or his, I don’t know. Something like that.
THOMAS: So, David to Ken would be the, the source? David told Ken?
DEE: Yes…
THOMAS: …from what we’re to understand
DEE: …David told Ken that (pause) that there was a…
CARRIGER: So, you didn’t like that Ken met with David?
DEE: No, I didn’t know he was meeting with David.
THOMAS: How did, how
DEE: well I’ve been in here
THOMAS: I don’t understand.
DEE: Well, while I’ve been in here, I didn’t know he was meeting with David until just a couple of weeks before he died. When I just…
CARRIGER: Ken
DEE: …brought up that name.
CARRIGER: If you didn’t know he was meeting with David…
DEE: Yes.
CARRIGER: ..while you were in here,
DEE: Right
CARRIGER: He said, I’m actually meeting with my friend tomorrow at seven (7:00) a.m. Go figure that out.’ Your response was, ‘Ooh, I love it.’
DEE: David Novak (emphatically)
CARRIGER: That
DEE: That’s who I believe he was meeting.
CARRIGER: Okay but
DEE: That’s what I thought he was meeting. That’s the only person that I thought he was getting information about. Tom.
CARRIGER: Okay but there (their?)…
DEE: and Tommy
CARRIGER: …prior to the, that statement of the meeting in your conversation, there was no discussion about David Novak. There was no indication in your conversation. So, when he used the words, my friend, what made you, and you had no idea that he was meeting with David since you’d been incarcerated
DEE: Oh no, I don’t think he met David that morning. I don’t know whether he did or not,
CARRIGER: Okay so…
DEE: …but I thought he was meeting with David when we talked. Cause there’s other conversations…
CARRIGER: listen
DEE: …that we’ve talked about.
CARRIGER: What did you love about the meeting that you thought he was having with David Novak?
DEE: That he was going to find out more information about Tom and that he was going to find out more information about Tommy and Darick.
THOMAS: Um, earlier you, you mentioned that you thought that the, the day prior to his death, he told you some things that doesn’t show up in this phone conversation, but does it, could that have been a couple of days before?
DEE: I thought it, I don’t…
THOMAS: The day before?
DEE: I don’t know
CARRIGER: Well, the part, I’m just, the part that confuses me
DEE: okay, that’s fine
CARRIGER: is, you, you told me now, or just a moment ago, that you were unaware that Ken had been meeting with David Novak since you became incarcerated here, is that correct?
DEE: Well, not until, I, just about, the week before, two weeks before, when he was telling me some things about David Novak and I’d even talked to Bart about it, and I told Bart when Bart came, I said, ‘I think the person that Ken’s been meeting to find out all, that he’s been telling me about all this information about Tom and what’s going on and everything, um, with his incarceration and stuff is coming from David Novak…
CARRIGER: well, when
DEE: …because I tricked Ken into telling me who the person that he was getting this information was, I just threw the name out, David Novak, I don’t know why, I…
CARRIGER: When was that?
DEE: …that and I’ve said up (sound like ssssft audioglitch) [13:40]. I just told you that, several times.
CARRIGER: Well, yeah,…
DEE: It was
UNKNOWN?: …can you repeat it again? [This may be a whole new speaker.]
DEE: …yes, it was a week or two before.
CARRIGER: Okay. So, expl, explain or help me ex-explain when you said, ‘Well, he knows now nothing will leak out. Nothing is being said. Nothing is.’ What’s that mean?
DEE: I don’t know.
DEE: I don’t really, I don’t really know what I was thinking when I said, ‘He knows now that nothing will leak out that nothing was said.’
CARRIGER: Well, your conversation was very specific in that you were happy and loved the fact that this meeting was going to take place at seven a m (7:00 AM). Which just a little bit earlier in the interview. You told me you had no knowledge.
DEE: I know and you have said that to me. And I just didn’t remember it, but now that you’ve said it,
CARRIGER: But
DEE: I do remember it, but it could have been the, even the day before. I just, I remember having that conversation now and it could have been the day before. Cause I called Ken almost every night. I just didn’t call him on, uh, I didn’t call him on Saturday cause he was here. I didn’t call him one Sunday and didn’t call him on Fridays. But I called him every night of the week. And sometimes those conversations just blur. But it was when I found out that he was talking to David Novak, which I knew nothing about, I didn’t know where he was getting his information about all the stuff that was going on. And Bart knows exactly what I’m talking about. Uh, I found out that he was talking to David Novak and, because I tricked him, I just said, ‘Oh, because you’re getting this information from David Novak’. And he said, ‘Yes.’ And went on with the story. And that’s when I sat back and I thought, I don’t understand. And then the next week, or no, that week, that same day or one of the, one of the times he visited me, maybe it was the next day. He told me that David Novak was now helping Tom and that he was talking to Tom and Darick and that they had found a doctor that would write a letter for Tom to get into the drug program.
CARRIGER: Were you having Ken seek out and obtain information for you to assist you in and your appeals process or a new trial or seeking out information
DEE: The reason that Ken was so um eager and he kind of started this and everything is my divorce is not final. And I have found out a lot of information. Darick’s wife just before I was incarcerated came and brought me a stack of papers that showed me that Tommy and Darick and Tom had been lying to me, basically embezzling money from Neways and me because I own half and I saw this property and all these things and the 7,000 acres that they said that they bought from a guy that was losing it for a million dollars was really 5 million and all kinds of things that were going on. And, uh he was trying to help me, find anything out that he could so that when I went into court to finalize my court, that, uh that there was something that maybe could help me.
CARRIGER: Okay. So, then kind of as just an on [17:13] short answer, had you specifically asked Ken to seek out information for you
DEE: No. Ken kind of wanted to do that. That was really Ken’s, Ken’s push on that to help me,
CARRIGER: Had you ever sent Ken any letters requesting him to seek out information to assist you.
DEE: Yes, I have.
CARRIGER: Okay. So, then the answer, to the fact is, to my earlier question you just said, no, but you have asked him to seek out information
BAILEY: (inaudible in background)
DEE: Yes…
BAILEY: Well, you’ve got two different questions there. One was, did, did she ask Ken to get her some specific information, as opposed to Ken, asking Ken to help her. Virtually everything Ken has been doing is to help her, uh,
CARRIGER: and that, and that’s the reason I’m repeating so that we’re not making them a miscommunication here. I want to make sure that it’s understood or we’re not misstating something. So, you know, yes, to help you, but specifically to seek out information for you.
DEE: Um, yes, Ken was trying to help me. And I knew it when he started to talk to me about some things that were going on. I never asked him to seek out anything in any letters or anything about Tom, until I found out that he was doing it and doing it to help me in my uh divorce proceedings because it’s not finished yet. It’s still under bifurcation.
THOMAS: So am I, am I understanding right? You didn’t ask him to do it, but the fact that he was doing it was okay.
DEE: Yeah. Yeah. I
BAILEY: Her, her attorney has been asking Ken. I am that attorney in the divorce action, as well. And this is really a bifurcated approach, frankly. There’s, there’s three things going on or one. One is the divorce action itself. They were divorced back in 2000. There has never been a final adjudication and under Utah law a court has to make a determination as to what assets were, what they are worth, and how they should be allocated….
THOMAS: And that’s where it gets complicated.
CARRIGER: That has not been settled.
BAILEY: It never has been. Judge Schofield ordered the business sold in this case a year and a half, two years ago. Uh, there’s there’s problems with the valuation of the thing, frankly, it shouldn’t have been sold for a billion dollars to Tom insisted that it be sold for cash. And he had a reason for doing that. Uh, the case I referred you guys to, that parts that were sealed from me, frankly, there’s a hearing Monday, the (inaudible, one cough in background drowns it out), but that’s Neways suing Tom, Tommy and Darick for improper, uh competition for stealing trade secrets. Uh, they’re referring us civically to a declaration and a bunch of exhibits with a guy named Nipley (Ripley?). Let’s see, (inaudible, possibly – Ken Nipley’s the book and worm expert). I think it’s Richard Nipley. But evidently, Mr. Nipley is a guy who Tom hired to help them set up a competing business, this is something competing with Neways, in Japan, two or two and a half years before he sold Neways. And the way this is sorta critical is. A venture capital group out of San Francisco called Golden Gate bought Neways.
BAILEY: It was all done under a sealed bid and they were the only people that came up with cash that came up at about 490 million, 400 of which is borrowed money. They borrowed from a couple of venture capital groups. And I don’t know what provisions there are, I just know they’re under some sort of penalty provision if (one cough in background) Neways doesn’t meet certain expectation standards. While immediately after the sale of the business, Tom launched his new business, which we now know had been launched literally two years prior. That business has two parts. One’s called Supernatural (Supranatural?) others called Sisel. Sisel is the marketing thing. Supernatural is the manufacturing and uh because of the the huge numbers that are involved, we’re anxious to, anxious to know this because if they don’t recover all their losses at this point from Tom, she’s next in line for the loss, even though she hasn’t illegally competed. She did end up with half the proceeds of the sale.
BAILEY: Uh, we have a real belief right now that uh, if Neways were sold today, it wouldn’t sell for half of what it sold for last November. It really hasn’t been doing all that good in the last year. Uh, so, we’re, we’re in a defensive mode, trying to stay out of a lawsuit there, and anything we can do. Uh, they, they just, they, the attorneys in the case just, uh (or inaudible), (22:22) if today’s the 13th that would’ve been two days ago, in preparation for these hearings coming up in the federal court Monday [December 17th, 2007]. Uh, now, the the other flip on that is uh when Dee came in here for a claim she did not commit. This is all Tom’s nasty doings. There’s never been a time in four or five years building up to this, that Tom Mower could have been and become a man (or couldn’t have and become a man) glitch? [NEITHER MAKES SENSE 22:53] and just stood up and said, ‘She didn’t do it. I did.’ In order for him to be mad enough to let her out for what she didn’t do, he would have to admit he did it. So, he was willing to go all the way through the trial process and let her take co-blame here on the hope that he would get off rather than just stand up and admit that he did it. Uh, well, one of our plans,
DEE: Can I interject one thing here? I really believe that the reason he did this is because he had been competing, which I found out much later, because hindsight’s always, always, um better, um, but if he went to prison and I didn’t, I would be running Neways and I ran Neways by myself a lot because he was gone a lot because he had girlfriends in every country, Russia, Ukraine, and that’s why we got divorced and, uh, uh, out about almost a 30 year marriage, 27 year marriage. And, uh, he knew that I could run the business because he was gone all the time and the business grew and grew and grew. Um, he got up on the stage and even told 2000 people that he had been home, uh, three months in, uh, two years,
BAILEY: The, the, the…
DEE: So
BAILEY: …a little more foundation I think I’ve discussed with you Chris, but I don’t know if I have with you, Dean, (or possibly Dave) [24:35 – WHO IS DAVE?] under Utah,
divorce law, a couple is married and getting divorced and they own a corporation. The court has a responsibility to one, determine if it’s a viable business. And if it’s a viable business that cannot be divided, then the court makes a determination of which of the married parties is most able to continue to operate the business. Well, after it’s been valued, will award the business to the one, most capable to operate it and then have that person buy out the interest of the other party. Now, we’re going back here 10 years. I mean, she learned in 1998 that her husband uh was an adulterer. And uh…
DEE: 1999 I think
BAILEY: ‘Kay…uh we stipulated to a divorce and then the divorce is what’s referred to as a bifurcated divorce, get the couple divorced now, we’ll be back in a few months, your honor soon as we get the assets gathered up and valued and you can make a determination. Well, then we went through nearly a two year battle just trying to get her, fifty percent (50%) owner and director of the business, access to books and records of her own business so we could get it valued. Well, why couldn’t we get it sooner? Well, why we couldn’t get it sooner was Tom was under an IRS investigation. [I WONDER IF WE CAN FIND ANYTHING ON THIS?]
BAILEY: And if Neways gave us that information, it goes to the core of value for the business one, but two, it also goes to the core of who is better able to run the business. The guy that’s out scamming the government or the lady that isn’t? Neways was also under an FDA investigation. Their, uh, one of their principal products had been determined to have the human growth hormone in it. So, human the FDA came in, and then seized all the inventory and records of one of their distributors in California. Don’t remember his name, the guy died of a heart attack like the next day or within a week or something, that investigation went on for months and months. And we became aware of the fact that it was so critical to the core of their business that if the FDA took a real stiff stance, it could result in a two or three hundred million dollars ($2-300M) fine, which would have been instantly put Neways out of business.
BAILEY: So, I’m trying to get access to the information. I’m the guy that subpoenaed Neways. She’s the half owner who needs the information to value the business. Tom, and his counsel, and in-house counsel are refusing to let us have the information because the minute we get it, she qualifies to take over the business. We ended up, uh, uh, stipulating to a, uh, resolution, just a short-term thing, like bringing on a seventh director. His name is Mike Cunningham. The court uh finally agreed to allow her access to books and records. That would have been (two coughs in background) December 30th of 2002, boxes were delivered to my office the next day, my partner and I were going through them. I called her on, I called her the second day in October, 2002. And I said, ‘They’ve been telling you, Dee, that you are not a target in this IRS investigation, but clearly you are. Uh, I mean, I’m looking at a stack of subpoenas here. I can’t believe we didn’t get you your own criminal defense counsel months ago.’
THOMAS: Bart, can I, can I interrupt you. I think at at this point, I think we’re pretty much up as neatly as much
BAILEY: I understand, but…
THOMAS: as we need to be on that, but well, in a polite
BAILEY: sorry
THOMAS: uh, what, I think in the interest of time, what I’m really interested in, and if you want to continue, you know, shut me up, but
BAILEY: No
THOMAS: I’m really interested in the last, in the two weeks of contact between you and Ken and what you learned, because two weeks before Ken was murdered, he started telling you about communication he’d had with Novak. And I’m really interested in that because pretty clearly here, when he’s, when he said ‘my friend,’ you knew or thought at least that, that, that was David Novak.
DEE: I did believe that then yes, but I hadn’t, didn’t know where he was getting his information that he was telling us about Tom..
THOMAS: Just back, back up to when you first, you kind of tricked him into telling him, telling you he was with David Novak
DEEL I just brought up the name…
THOMAS: and meeting
DEE: … I don’t know why I did, but I just, I don’t why I did.
THOMAS: start, start from that point and tell us everything you can remember about, about Ken, David up until the murder happened.
DEE: Just that he had told me that, um his wife, Lydia, and Tom were getting a divorce and that Lydia’s mother had come in from Russia, and was staying with her for long periods of time, uh to help take care of their child and that the mother had gone to, uh Tom’s attorneys and was asking for five million dollars [$5M]. And I don’t know why she was asking for five million dollars [$5M]. I don’t know what that whole thing is about…
THOMAS: Novak told Ken all this?
DEE: Well, I don’t know. His source did.
THOMAS: okay
DEE: And when I found out that, that something that he told me about, um I just can’t remember. We’ve had so many conversations that I just can’t really, I can’t really remember, but when I tricked him into telling me that he was getting some, some of his information or all of his information, I don’t know, uh from David Novak, because when he told me something and I think it might’ve been that I can’t remember, he said, uh and I said to him, “Oh, you got that information from David Novak.” And he didn’t stop me. He didn’t say, “No, not David.” And, so, I assumed. And, so, from that time on, we kind of, I kind of knew, but we really didn’t talk about it that much. We didn’t really talk about David or, I had no idea he was meeting him once a week. I had no idea. Until I got that card from David Novak that told me, that I sent home to my family.
THOMAS: Okay, uh, but prior, prior to this date, the 14th, you learned something about David Novak and apparently Novak was providing some information that you apparently wanted to have.
DEE: I’m…
THOMAS: because…
DEE: …I’m assuming. And that’s what
THOMAS: …just…
DEE: I was assuming and that’s what I was assuming here as well.
THOMAS: just when you said…
DEE: Yes, I understand that.
THOMAS: I think, I’m I’m with ya and I think there’s
DEE: No,
THOMAS: a bit of a…
DEE: your not with me because I’ve had so many conversations with Ken. And even during that time that I found out, um or thought maybe it was David Novak, um, I, I just, I asked a lot of questions.
THOMAS: That’s what I was about to say, I think that, um, and if, you know, if I was talking to them, I can’t remember exactly what I said to my wife yesterday compared to the day before compared to the day before. And, if, if you’re, if you’re a little confused on what days,
DEE: I’m not confused…
THOMAS: I’m okay with that…
DEE: …I’m kind of hurt that I don’t remember that. And I didn’t remember that. I swear to God, I didn’t remember that, but that is a conversation we had,
THOMAS: okay
DEE: we did, I…
THOMAS: But, what I’m saying…
DEE: but what I didn’t remember.
THOMAS: is that…
DEE: It was the day before I didn’t. And so now that I see this and I see what I said, I believed that he was meeting with David Novak, but I didn’t put the two days together. I didn’t, I was, I’ve been so upset and I think I’m just barely coming out of shock.
THOMAS: I’m sure
DEE: I’m just barely, barely coming out of shocked. I’ve hardly been able to even function with all of this, especially the way that Ken was murdered and I, I’m just struggling with it. And I’m just, you know, I-I’m trying to remember ‘cause I want to help you so bad. I want to know. I want answers. I just want to, I don’t, I don’t care if the guy, I don’t want to hurt the guy. I mean, I don’t want him like in prison or anything or do bad damage to him. I don’t care. God’s going to deal with him, but I want to know why. And that’s my big push. And that’s why I got my sisters involved in everybody involved trying to get the Sandy police, I’m trying to get. But the day after it, they all went on. They just went home and had their days off.
THOMAS: No
DEE: They didn’t follow up.
THOMAS: That’s not true. I can tell you, Dean and I haven’t had more than more than 24 hours in a row off since…
DEE: Okay
THOMAS: …since he was murdered,
DEE: Well, maybe they misunderstood…
THOMAS: We’re, we’re logging so much overtime
DEE: Well, that’s…
THOMAS: …and the chief’s, chief’s okay with it. He says, “Just solve it.”
DEE: Okay, well that’s Bobby, Bobby, my son, and my sister, Toni’s, the ones that told me that.
THOMAS: Okay, and that, that’s not true.
DEE: Okay.
THOMAS: We, I think we both took Thanksgiving off full day of Thanksgiving, but other than that, there’s been, we’ve been working our tails off.
DEE: Well, I’ve tried to put up a reward and they’ve said, “No, don’t, let us get the forensics back.”
THOMAS: Yeah
DEE: And I’ve been trying to do everything because I want this found. And when you use money, if it’s hot, people that know anything because they soon forget, look, I forgot that, it wasn’t that long ago. I didn’t even think. I mean, the minute that I heard Ken, I mean, I, I didn’t even remember this. I remember this conversation, but if you told me, I’d said that maybe a week ago, a week before that I would say, yeah, I can’t remember that it was the night before,…
THOMAS: Ju…
DEE: … but I honestly thought, and when I was saying that it was (one cough in background) Novak, he was meeting, only because he had told me some information about Tom. And when we said that, we said moat (mote? [i.e. tom backwards mot]), we would always say moat on the phone.
THOMAS: Okay.
DEE: And I, so I assumed after that, it was only two couple of weeks, two or three weeks that I assumed that he was, talking to David, but I can’t be for sure.
THOMAS: Okay.
CARRIGER: Can you remember about leaking out or concerns about information mation (bad edit) [34:39] leaking out
THOMAS: Was Novak concerned about that?
DEE: I don’t know.
BAILEY: Could it be helpful if you actually let her read those words?
THOMAS: Absolutely.
BAILEY: Uh…
DEE: Let me see, um,
BAILEY: Perhaps seeing it in the context that it is there…and, and whose (inaudible)
DEE: Talk about Darick and Tommy as well, as well,
DEAN: …(inaudible, possibly ‘that’d have to be’) somebody in the police department…[CARRIGER THINKS THE POLICE DEPT? I ALWAYS THOUGHT SHE MEANT TOM SR ET AL OR HIS COHORTS]
DEE: Okay. That’s gotta be David Novak.
BAILEY: (inaudible)…so, you got tapes and you guy’s transcribed it. It wasn’t transcribed here? [MEANING AT HER PRISON, I ASSUME].
CARRIGER: No, we transcribed it.
DEE: Okay. Okay. Right here. Right here, “Talk about Darick and Tommy, as well ‘cause evid-evidently they’ve been talking to him.” that’s cause Ken had told me that. He had told me that a couple of weeks before he died, that David Novak was talking to Darick and Tommy and I was stunned, because he said after that letter Tom wrote him that he was concerned for his life, that it was a very threatening letter and that he was never going to have anything to do with Tommy or Darick or anybody ever again. So, when I said this, you know, ‘Talk about Darick and Tommy, as well’ because Tom, Ken was talking about Tom. And now that Tom, cause the reason I said that is because David Novak wasn’t talking to Tom. I don’t know, or maybe he was, while he was in prison, but he, Tom, Kenny led me to believe that it was Tommy and Darick that were going to him asking him to help his dad, after everything that, that hadI was just shocked (possible bad edit, end of sentence missing) [36:06] about it. So, I wanted to know more about Darick and Tommy and what David Novak was telling him, or what Tommy Darick was telling David Novak.
THOMAS: Did Ken ever tell you about any other associates of David Novak?
DEE: See and right here when it says, “Yeah, so I’m actually meeting with my friend tomorrow,” when he said ‘my friend’, I thought that it was David Novak, because, ‘Go figure that out,’ No (said as if correcting herself and then quoting how Ken actually says it on recording), ‘Go figure that out.’
THOMAS: I think and I listened to this myself, as well. And you’re both talking over in the, in the, this transcript doesn’t, doesn’t reflect that well. He was off. He was off, he was kind of surprised he was getting up that early. Cause I guess he didn’t like to get up that early or something.
DEE: He didn’t. H e didn’t.
THOMAS: Um, so, he-he’s, I think the, “Go figure that out,” is…
DEE: yeah
THOMAS: …seven o’clock.
DEE: right, his, “Good or bad”…
THOMAS: Yeah, wait, “go figure that out.”
DEE: Bad…
THOMAS: okay
DEE: “…or you know it’s”
THOMAS: Oh, that’s the (inaudible) of the conversation you were talking about earlier.
DEE: Ye ah, “It’s bad for him. I remember that.
THOMAS: Okay.
DEE: And
BAILEY: You asked a question and I’ve already forgotten it. She had yet, she didn’t answer it.
DEE: What was it?
THOMAS: About associates Did Ken ever talked about, talk about associates of David Novak?
DEE: No. And he never told me who, who gave him the information or where he found these guys where he went to Las Vegas about May, (one grunt of clearing throat in background), April or May, he never, he wouldn’t tell me who they were. He didn’t discuss it. Nothing.
THOMAS: Okay.
DEE: And maybe it could have been because he was a little embarrassed because he was so sure this was going to work out. And I told him, ‘It’s not.’
CARRIGER: What was your knowledge about David Novak’s consulting company of his services for you? What,
DEE: Just…
CARRIGER: …what…
DEE: …Just what I learned in that meeting that we held with all of Tom’s attorneys and all of my attorneys and David Novak.
CARRIGER: What did you pay David Novak for the services?
DEE: You know what, I can’t remember.
THOMAS: How did you pay him?
DEE: I think check. I can’t remember.
CARRIGER: So, what was the extent of the services he was going to provide, to your understanding, when he was first hired? What was the length of those services and what were they to be?
DEE: Just that he was uh going to write up some papers. He had all the papers, things needed to be done. He was going to do them to get a commutation. That’s all I knew. And I, when he came the first time I, to my home, and spoke with me, he’d been talking to Ken the whole time, but I didn’t talk to David, he said that, um, I told him I was scared. I told him I was really scared to come to prison. Cause I didn’t. I mean, everything that you see on tv. I told him that I was really frightened. And he said, “No, you’re going to make it. Everything is going to be all right.” And then he called Ken and told Ken that he wanted to bring a lady in from somewhere, California, I think, and he wanted to bring her in and talk with me to settle my nerves and make me feel better. And, so, he brought this lady into my home and we talked and she just simply said, “I survived. You can survive. It’ll be all right. Everything will be all right.” Told me a bunch of stuff about Dublin.
CARRIGER: Did you hire David Novak to continue providing advice through your prince (either stuttered, misspoke, or bad edit) [40:00], prison sentence here and your supervised release?
DEE: No. When he sent me that ignorant letter, which I think was ignorant, cause it, you know, along with all the pictures and all, um that, Ken came and told me he was going to be sending me something. He said, David’s got all your kids’ numbers and everything so that you can put on your em on your numbers list so that you can get calls out. It’s going to take awhile and all the addresses so that if I could, if I needed to write somebody, I could write them. So, I got all the address and everything and um then he sent me a bunch of pictures in color. They were all on sheets. And I could remember when I got over here, quite a while later, I just cut them out and put them in a little album.
CARRIGER: Did Ken hire David Novak to continue giving consultant advice through your presence sentence and pre-sentence release?
DEE: Not that I know of. I didn’t know Ken was even associating with David Novak. I really didn’t.
CARRIGER: If Ken paid David Novak for that continued advice, do you know where he would have gotten the money?
DEE: Either out of my account or his. I don’t.
CARRIGER: Does Ken have any large cash reserves or do you have ‘em that Ken has access to?
BAILEY: Uh…
DEE: Yeah
BAILEY: …Large is that relative term again,
CARRIGER: Okay…
DEE: Tell me large.
CARRIGER: …anything over 25,000?
DEE: Did Ken have access to over twenty-five thousand dollars [$25,000]?
THOMAS: Na, he’s talking about cash. He’s…
CARRIGER: cash
THOMAS: …talking about not in the bank.
CARRIGER: cash, just cash.
DEE: No. No. We carried a lot of cash with us. We would always, uh cash checks like for nine thousand dollars [$9,000] uh, and Ken would always have two or three thousand [$2000 or $3000] in his wallet. I would always have two or three thousand [$2000 or $3000] in my wallet. We always did that from the first, from the get
CARRIGER: nothing over twenty-five thousand dollars [$25,000]?
DEE: No, absolutely not that I know of, ever. No, but we did, we did, we’d get, we’d get a lot of cash. I put a lot of cash for the kids, little kids for all their Christmases and stuff like that. And I always had cash on me for this or for that and the other. And I just always carried a lot of cash, but I did when I was married to Tom.
CARRIGER: Okay. Now you told um Detective Shosted that Ken had twenty dollars [$20] in his wallet
DEE: Yes and I, that was wrong.
CARRIGER: Where did you get that information or now you say it’s wrong?
DEE: Yeah, my sister, Toni, told me that.
CARRIGER: Okay
DEE: My sister told me that she heard from one of the officers that can only had twenty dollars [$20] in his wallet . And she said, ‘Uh-uh’ and I said, ‘Uh-uh. Ken always had two or three thousand [$2000 or $3000] in his wallet. Always.
CARRIGER: Okay
DEE: It didn’t, aa-aa, it just didn’t make sense.
THOMAS: So, when you say it’s wrong, it means that the twenty dollars [$20], it was wrong that he would only have twenty dollars [$20]?
DEE: I mean,
CARRIGER: What
DEE: I guess it could be possible,
CARRIGER: this,
DEE: but I can’t imagine
UNKNOWN: I’ll tell ya this…43:05]
CARRIGER: You said it’s wrong. So, what do you think was in his wallet?
DEE: Two or three thousand dollars [$2000 or $3000] maybe a thousand [$1000] anyway.
CARRIGER: And did somebody tell you that or is that something you just,
DEE: I just know Ken and I know me and I know how much we always carried around with this. (long pause of silence where no one speaks) They also said that his wallet was untouched. He was untouched. The man shot him and left. So, if he’d have given him anything, he’d had to have given it to him before. I don’t know.
CARRIGER: Okay
DEE: And maybe he was there with just twenty dollars [$20] in his pocket. That’s possible, but unusual.
CARRIGER: Okay. Now, have you asked anyone to conceal or destroy any item to prevent or delay police from obtaining it since Wednesday, November 14th, 2007?
DEE: No. No. They came in, they took my computers, they came in and checked. They came in and went all through Ken’s desk. Rob’s desk. LaDonna told me that because LaDonna’s been my assistant for 15 years.
CARRIGER: Oh no. Well, I know the police came in and did that.
DEE: Yeah.
CARRIGER: But have you asked anyone to conceal or destroy any item…
DEE: No
CARRIGER: to…
DEE: No
CARRIGER: …to prevent or delay the police from obtaining
DEE: No.
CARRIGER: Okay, have given instructions to anybody or asked anyone to conceal computer hard drives to delay or prevent police from seeing them
DEE: Absolutely not. But I did say this. I told my son, Bob, that I wanted Jorg to go in and to make a copy of all hard drives because I had thrown away all Ken’s letters, because we can only have 25 letters here, and I’d ripped them up and thrown them away because they came in, they shake you down and they’ll take your letters from you. And, so, I didn’t want them, I didn’t want to be shook down. I didn’t want to go to the shoe and I didn’t want to get a shot because if you do, you lose your good time and I didn’t want to do that. So, I went ahead and ripped up all Ken’s letters, everything. And when Kent died that’s all I could think about. And the only letter I had was a letter that came to me the day after he died. And I gave that to my son, Barry and I said, you tell Bob to get Jorg, Jorg for Bob at Trivani. And, he’s a computer whiz. And I said, all I want you to do is go in and make a copy of, just get the hard drive copied. That’s all. Not to take anything away, not to delete anything, not to do anything wrong like that. Just make a copy. But Bob never got Jorg cause Jorg was in Germany. Jorg’s German and his family’s from Germany and Bob never got in and, and was, it was never allowed to be done because Jorg was in Germany.
THOMAS: Okay. Okay. I have some pictures here and
CARRIGER: Yes, that’s fine.
THOMAS: You want to look through them and see if you recognize the person? Long pause. You may as well look at them too, Bob. [BOB? 46:41]
DEE: This isn’t the same person as this?
THOMAS: It is. It’s the same person. The…
DEE: Well,
THOMAS: …the…
DEE: …here, it looks like he’s got hair.
THOMAS: Yeah,…
DEE: Okay
THOMAS: …that’s just a poor quality video.
DEE: I’ve never seen this man before, ever
THOMAS: Okay. I thought’s that’s what you were going to say.
CARRIGER: You seen him, Bart?
BAILEY: No, I noticed bald headed guys.
DEE: The uh, the thing that would stand out about this guy is heavy, heavy, muscular build. It, it probably doesn’t show up real
BAILEY: …real thick right through the shoulders
DEE: See, what I picked up on that was that he was heavy. Not fat, but he was heavy.
THOMAS: (shuffling papers) Since we’re gonna have lunch and (inaudible, possible –‘zip’) [47:48] this interview, should we step out and talk for a minute, before we?
CARRIGER: yeah
THOMAS: Is that okay?
BAILEY: This might be a (inaudible) chance for a restroom break?
CARRIGER: Yep
BAILEY: I tried to get you a bottle of water earlier, but…
CARRIGER: We’re gonna turn off the tape and (inaudible) this for a break at the moment.
BAILEY: …I couldn’t find any waters or cleansing tissues…
END OF RECORDING [48:04]

Police Interview with Leslie Mower

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